Wednesday, September 27

A log of conversation about anime aspects. Interesting chat

(14:40:26) Rah-Rah: Can I ask you something
(14:40:39) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: yeap?
(14:40:40) Rah-Rah: What is your exact opinion of the original TV series
(14:40:58) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: dated but has more substance than newer animes
(14:41:16) Rah-Rah: I wouldn't say newer anime as a whole
(14:41:22) Rah-Rah: But I see what you mean
(14:41:44) Rah-Rah: Maybe it has something to do with what people in the anime industry wanted to do then and what they want to do now
(14:41:48) Rah-Rah: I mean think about it
(14:41:48) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: compare this to for example, Prince of Tennis
(14:41:55) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: or Cooking Master Boy
(14:42:22) Rah-Rah: When you try to make something for a select group of people with high standards, who know their shit, you tend to go all out to make it the best damn thing possible
(14:42:25) Rah-Rah: However
(14:42:37) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: 0079 Gundam however
(14:42:47) Rah-Rah: When you get more mainstream with your works, you start to do a lot more works that are not aimed at anyone in particular
(14:42:47) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: has more sympathetic characters and good background
(14:42:55) Rah-Rah: In other words
(14:43:09) Rah-Rah: You tend to get away with mediocrity more when you go more mainstream
(14:43:17) Rah-Rah: Cause the public more or less expects that
(14:43:19) Rah-Rah: And eats it up
(14:43:55) Rah-Rah: Those aren't good things to compare it to at all
(14:44:05) Rah-Rah: Since Prince of Tennis is a terrible sports manga
(14:44:12) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: but people loved it
(14:44:21) Rah-Rah: Because the action is well done
(14:44:25) Rah-Rah: And the guys are handsome
(14:44:25) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I lost count on the hordes of people trying to go mada made ne
(14:44:55) Rah-Rah: It doesn't even focus on the characters and their relationships
(14:45:00) Rah-Rah: or what they do when they aren't on the court
(14:45:03) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I look at the concept
(14:45:10) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: and I just shake my head in disbelief
(14:45:13) Rah-Rah: THAT'S what makes it suck as compared to something like
(14:45:15) Rah-Rah: Say
(14:45:17) Rah-Rah: Touch
(14:45:21) Rah-Rah: THAT'S a good sports manga
(14:45:25) Rah-Rah: And I hate baseball
(14:45:42) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I haven't touch Touch (no pun intended)
(14:45:51) Rah-Rah: You should
(14:45:53) Rah-Rah: It's very good
(14:46:09) Rah-Rah: And I also find Eyeshield 21 to be hilarious :P
(14:46:26) Rah-Rah has signed off.
(14:49:27) Rah-Rah: If you are gonna compare First Gundam to something
(14:49:27) Rah-Rah: Compare it to
(14:49:27) Rah-Rah: I dunno
(14:49:27) Rah-Rah: Fullmetal Alchemist :P
(14:49:27) Rah-Rah: Or Saikano
(14:49:27) Rah-Rah: Because they are easy targets
(14:50:20) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: hahahaha
(14:50:23) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: FMA
(14:50:30) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: Saikano is train wreck
(14:50:41) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: nice story but a bit too hackneyed for me
(14:51:07) Rah-Rah has signed on.
(14:51:37) Rah-Rah: More like interesting concept that is shoved down your fucking throut
(14:52:01) Rah-Rah: Gimme a goddamn break
(14:52:16) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: people love it
(14:52:25) Rah-Rah: Because people are morons
(14:52:44) Rah-Rah: Whose emotions are easily manipulated
(14:53:29) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: man
(14:53:36) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: you are quite articulate
(14:53:43) Rah-Rah: I am?
(14:53:47) Rah-Rah: You're kidding right?
(14:54:02) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: yeah
(14:54:05) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I am not kidding
(14:54:13) Rah-Rah: lol
(14:54:13) Rah-Rah: Thanks
(14:55:09) Rah-Rah: I'm just saying
(14:55:29) Rah-Rah: People talk about how sad the series is when the tradgey itself is so over the top that you can's swallow it
(14:55:49) Rah-Rah: It also doesn't help that, while Chise is a rather good girl, her boyfriend is a fucking asshole
(14:55:54) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: the problem is
(14:55:58) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: the war did not make sense to me
(14:56:03) Rah-Rah: How can I feel sorry for this relationship
(14:56:07) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: why suddenly Japan got attacked?
(14:56:15) Rah-Rah: That's what I thought too
(14:56:46) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: off course when i asked in MT forum
(14:56:50) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I got rebuffed
(14:57:01) Rah-Rah: But I don't think the reason the war was fought was what he was going for. I think he was going trying to say that War is terrrible and ruins peoples lives
(14:57:06) Rah-Rah: But that's the thing
(14:57:29) Rah-Rah: If you don't explain why the war is being fought, then what good is it for us to feel sorry for the victums
(14:57:43) Rah-Rah: It's a cheap device in order to add drama
(14:57:53) Rah-Rah: And sorrow to these miserable characters
(14:58:09) Rah-Rah: To this day though
(14:58:29) Rah-Rah: I still think it is hilarious that the only real good guy in the entire fucking thing reminds me of Roy Mustang
(14:59:00) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: you need to build a base
(14:59:07) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: before u can project a story
(14:59:13) Rah-Rah: Exactly
(14:59:27) Rah-Rah: Also
(14:59:42) Rah-Rah: If you want me to feel sorry for their relationship
(15:00:02) Rah-Rah: Don't make her boyfriend an asshole who fucks other women
(15:00:28) Rah-Rah: Even he she WASN'T away for a long time, he still fucked his ex substitude teacher
(15:00:40) Rah-Rah: And he did it like what
(15:00:42) Rah-Rah: 3 times?
(15:00:46) Rah-Rah: Then he fucked her friend
(15:00:52) Rah-Rah: WHAT THE HELL, MAN
(15:01:04) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: hmmmmmmmmmm
(15:01:07) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: in the manga right?
(15:01:14) Rah-Rah: Yeah
(15:01:18) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I remembered that he had sex with the teacher
(15:01:46) Rah-Rah: And he did it 3 FUCKING TIMES
(15:02:03) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: not bad
(15:02:05) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: lol
(15:02:12) Rah-Rah: And they want me to feel sorry for this relationship?
(15:02:18) Rah-Rah: Sorry, Chise, find a guy who doesn't suck
(15:03:04) Rah-Rah: And cheat on you
(15:03:06) Rah-Rah: Regularly
(15:03:24) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: 3 times is not regular
(15:03:32) Rah-Rah: You know what I mean
(15:03:38) Rah-Rah: Continuosly
(15:03:44) Rah-Rah: And then he fucked her friend
(15:03:55) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: ?
(15:04:06) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: so he had sex with 2 ?
(15:04:12) Rah-Rah: Yes
(15:04:50) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: (races to get Saikano manga)
(15:05:16) Rah-Rah: I'LL KILL YOU
(15:05:18) Rah-Rah: I'LL KILL YOU DEAD
(15:05:28) Rah-Rah: Seriously though
(15:05:29) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: hahahhaha
(15:05:37) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: just kidding
(15:05:48) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: but sounds like u r royally annoyed by Saikano
(15:05:49) Rah-Rah: If I hear one more person say Saikano is soul crushing, my head is gonna spin around while I talk backwards
(15:05:56) Rah-Rah: I really am
(15:06:08) Rah-Rah: I'm also greatly annoyed by the morons who eat this shit up
(15:06:30) Rah-Rah: And say I'm an inhuman monster who doesn't understand how tragic it all is
(15:06:32) Rah-Rah: Fuck that
(15:06:39) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: let me guess
(15:06:47) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: it is a very personal quarrel
(15:06:56) Rah-Rah: It is?
(15:07:34) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: from your annoyance
(15:07:38) Rah-Rah: I'm annoyed by Saikano like I'm annoyed with FMA like I'm annoyed with Ouran High School Host Club
(15:08:23) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: but I seen a lot of people swore by Quran
(15:08:32) Rah-Rah: Because agian
(15:08:34) Rah-Rah: People are morons
(15:08:42) Rah-Rah: Then agian
(15:08:52) Rah-Rah: The only people I know are really liking this show are fangirls
(15:09:00) Rah-Rah: And they are stupuid by defualt
(15:09:14) Rah-Rah: Pretty boys= BEST SHOW EVER
(15:10:02) Rah-Rah: Then agian
(15:10:10) Rah-Rah: Most anime fans in general are pretty dumb
(15:11:26) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: afraid so
(15:12:02) Rah-Rah: You know, there is another reason that FMA bugs me that I really haven't gone into
(15:12:13) Rah-Rah: It's a little stupuid, so bear with me
(15:12:57) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: dude dude
(15:13:01) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: blog this
(15:13:14) Rah-Rah: Let me get it off my chest first
(15:14:02) Rah-Rah: FMA is an anime. An anime is a japanese cartoon. Now. What FMA does is explore very western themes, ideas, and idealisms in a psudo european setting.
(15:14:48) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: yup
(15:15:53) Rah-Rah: People call this show the best show ever made, or that ever will be made. This bothers me because, in my mind, an anime that will be considered the best of all time should be something that is uniquely japanese, and explores themes and ideas that reflect the country's mindset, rather then something that talks about themes that have been explored by my own culture for the past few CENTURIES
(15:16:15) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: care to talk more?
(15:16:30) Rah-Rah: Sure
(15:18:22) Rah-Rah: Something like Yamato, or Gundam, or Eva all feel uniquely japanese and explore things that are unique to the country (or in Eva's case, more universal themes)
(15:18:26) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: (nods)
(15:18:32) Rah-Rah: Message could not be sent because a connection error occurred:
(15:18:32) Rah-Rah: (nods)
(15:19:53) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: okay
(15:20:06) Rah-Rah: Message could not be sent because a connection error occurred:
(15:20:06) Rah-Rah: okay
(15:20:40) Rah-Rah: Besides
(15:20:58) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: Okay
(15:21:10) Rah-Rah: As for the work itself, it's somewhat poorly written and planned out, and yet people don't seem to notice this
(15:21:25) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: go on
(15:21:40) Rah-Rah: That most of the characters don't get developed whatsoever
(15:22:03) Rah-Rah: Or the middle half is poorly written (Example, thrown Dante in our lap and saying "this is the main villian")
(15:23:28) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: ok
(15:23:45) Rah-Rah: Hell, it doesn't even explore it's own themes that well
(15:23:54) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: alright
(15:23:54) Rah-Rah: As it's constantly contradicting whatever message it's trying to make
(15:24:03) Rah-Rah: Example
(15:24:40) Rah-Rah: In episode I thnk 16, Ed meets an old man who was involved in the Ishbal massacute
(15:25:20) Rah-Rah: He pretty much tells Edward the pointlessness of his journey and pretty much lays hte groundwork for what he is going to do for the rest of the series
(15:25:20) Rah-Rah: BUT
(15:25:26) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: ok
(15:25:30) Rah-Rah: They never go back to that old man or what he says, deeming it unimportant
(15:25:45) Rah-Rah: This, my friend, is bad writing
(15:25:57) Rah-Rah: When you show all your stuff ahead of time and never go back to it
(15:26:26) Rah-Rah: That and it shows that Ed is an idiot who doesn't fucking listen
(15:27:03) Rah-Rah: This is part of the reason I like the manga, despite the fact that it seems the manga gets a lot less credit
(15:27:22) Rah-Rah: As it's a very tightly woven piece (most of the time)
(15:27:33) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: yes
(15:27:36) Rah-Rah: That and Ed stops being an unlikeable moron sooner
(15:28:27) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: ok
(15:28:47) Rah-Rah: Specking of which
(15:28:53) Rah-Rah: Another thing to compare and contast
(15:29:09) Rah-Rah: Ed and Al's relationship in both the anime and the manga
(15:29:33) Rah-Rah: People praise the anime for being a dramatic portrayal of just how far two brothers would go for each other
(15:29:55) Rah-Rah: Then why the hell does thier relationship seem so.........fake isn't he world I'm looking for
(15:30:02) Rah-Rah: Maybe one sided
(15:30:27) Rah-Rah: Since during the entire run, when Ed starts to get arrogent, Al doesn't try and take him down a few notches
(15:30:35) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: you mean one sided
(15:30:41) Rah-Rah: He eggs him on, saying "You can do it brother"
(15:30:51) Rah-Rah: He doesn't hep
(15:31:02) Rah-Rah: He makes things worse by boosting his already large ego
(15:31:17) Rah-Rah: In the manga on the other hand
(15:31:23) Rah-Rah: Al punches Ed in the face at least 5 times for being a dumbass
(15:31:30) Rah-Rah: And tells him so
(15:32:35) Rah-Rah: I guess the anime is trying to appel for to girls, so one brother has to be "on top" and the other has to be subservient :P
(15:32:47) Rah-Rah: Which in itself is stupid
(15:33:01) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: hmmmmmmmmm
(15:33:06) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: are u sure?
(15:33:34) Rah-Rah has signed off.
(15:33:50) Rah-Rah: I'm damn sure
(15:34:19) Rah-Rah: It was made even more clear in the movie that that is kinda what they seemed to be going for
(15:34:33) Rah-Rah: Which made me yell "What the fuck is wrong with you people" at the screen
(15:35:17) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: okayyyyyyyy
(15:36:35) Rah-Rah: And speck of the devil
(15:36:41) Rah-Rah: Cym said something remotely smart
(15:36:49) Rah-Rah: "I think FMA is a decent show, but it peaked at episode 6 (?) and was all downhill from there; overstayed its welcome. It's good, but not as good as popular opinion seems to hold it to be, so I'd say it's overrated."
(15:37:17) Rah-Rah: I would raise the number to 26 though
(15:37:53) Rah-Rah: And god
(15:37:58) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: ah huh
(15:37:59) Rah-Rah: I am so sorry I wrote all of that
(15:38:03) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: why sorry?
(15:38:06) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: this is cool stuff
(15:38:14) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: can I have ur permission to paste this on my blog?
(15:38:21) Rah-Rah: Sure
(15:38:23) Rah-Rah: :3
(15:38:50) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: yay
(15:38:53) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: found Shana manga
(15:38:54) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: ahahhaha
(15:39:15) Rah-Rah: lol
(15:39:47) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: but guess I need to nudge few people to translate Shana
(15:39:49) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: manga
(15:39:52) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I mean novel
(15:40:03) Rah-Rah: oh
(15:40:03) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: already they starting to work on Zero on Tsukaima novels
(15:42:04) Rah-Rah has signed on.
(15:43:07) Rah-Rah: And now i'm gonna dip my hand into the Overrated Anime thread one more time and pull out this
(15:43:21) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: again?
(15:43:27) Rah-Rah: One more time
(15:43:37) Rah-Rah: I hate reading it, as it's retarded as hell
(15:43:43) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: that thread is full flames
(15:43:49) Rah-Rah: Yeah
(15:43:59) Rah-Rah: They aren't even well thought out for the most part
(15:44:03) Rah-Rah: Like Sapphire's post for Eva
(15:44:13) Rah-Rah: Anyway
(15:44:17) Rah-Rah: "I have to disagree here. The characters are hardly crap. Perhaps they are over hyped but compared to most shows they are deeper than the ocean. It's because every character develops, the main and the many, many side characters. In most shows you only get development from the main character, and their sidekicks if you are lucky."
(15:44:19) Rah-Rah: LIES
(15:44:33) Rah-Rah: ABSOUTE LIES
(15:44:51) Rah-Rah: *head spins*
(15:45:03) Rah-Rah: This was Lina's post for defending FMA
(15:45:43) Rah-Rah: Why must I feel like I'm one of the only people that sees this things flaws at all
(15:45:55) Rah-Rah: .................hey wait a minute
(15:46:01) Rah-Rah: Goddamn, I just remembered
(15:46:11) Rah-Rah: You watched a few episodes of it yourself
(15:46:23) Rah-Rah: Didn't you have some rather unique complaints
(15:47:25) Rah-Rah: If so, try and remember
(15:49:45) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: errr
(15:49:54) Rah-Rah: Something about the comedy
(15:50:01) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: well, what I disliked about FMA is comedy insertion
(15:50:10) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: I felt the story is too grim to be slapstick
(15:50:28) Rah-Rah: When you say grim though, what do you mean
(15:50:42) Rah-Rah: (trying to see different ideas)
(15:50:50) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: FMA have a serious setting
(15:51:10) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: if you want humor, do it subtly
(15:51:23) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: not in middle of serious scene
(15:51:58) Rah-Rah: The prolem I have witht he humor is has more to do witht he fact that it's an anime then anything else
(15:52:02) Rah-Rah: What I mean is this
(15:52:20) Rah-Rah: I felt that a lot of the humor in FMA was really poorly timed and executed
(15:52:34) Rah-Rah: Whereas with the manga, it's spot on and not overdone
(15:52:58) Rah-Rah: I think that since this is a book, you pretty much time it yourself
(15:53:12) Rah-Rah: Rather then relying on someone else to do it
(15:53:28) Rah-Rah: Funny thing is though
(15:53:47) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: oh?
(15:53:56) Rah-Rah: A lot of people (and I mean a lot) have said in the past that "if FMA didn't have the comedy in it, it would not be a good anime"
(15:54:30) Rah-Rah: "it would be too serious and depressing" (I never found anything about it depressing myself, but that's besides the point)
(15:55:25) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: .....
(15:55:32) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: what is wrong with depressing and serious?
(15:55:58) Rah-Rah: That's the thing
(15:56:00) Rah-Rah: I don't understand
(15:56:34) Rah-Rah: I guess most of the people saying these are eiter teenagers or people who want to watch something, veg out for 30 minutes, and not be "overwhelled with doom and gloom"
(15:56:46) Rah-Rah: Mind you
(15:56:52) Rah-Rah: These are probably less serious minded people in general
(15:56:54) Rah-Rah: And also
(15:57:26) Rah-Rah: Didn't you say that most people just want escapism?
(15:58:48) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: yeap
(15:58:54) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: you reading my response
(15:59:16) Rah-Rah: Which is funny
(15:59:30) Kome, Mein Susser Todt: why?
(15:59:57) Rah-Rah: Cause there was this booklet that came with the FMA movie that was written by a well known anime critic (Well, I had never heard of him till I heard it but still)
(16:00:28) Rah-Rah: Same thing applies here
(16:00:51) Rah-Rah: He mentioned that it seemed that during '05, the year of information overload, is when people started running away to fantasy worlds, rejecting the real one
(16:00:51) Rah-Rah: Something like that

Kome, Mein Susser Todt is me and Rah-Rah is online friend. Interesting conversation here.